Those of you watching the news might know that my state (North Carolina) passed an amendment to our state constitution stating that NC will only recognize marriage between a man and a woman. This has caused a lot of discussion over the past few days, some of it constructive, some of it full of venom and hatred, no matter which side you were on.
As usual, I'm a moderate. I can really see both sides and was conflicted on how to vote. I listened to my friends, the people I respect, and they were on one side of the issue or the other. My Christian friends who believe in the Bible know that God sees homosexual relations as a sin, and voted "for." My more liberal friends want everyone to always have what they want when they want it, and voted "against." I was still conflicted.
After a great Facebook debate, it hit me - I had to figure out where I stood. What I stood for. What principles I live my life by. Then I would know. I won't tell you how I voted because it doesn't matter- the amendment passed with a good majority. But I did know where I stood, and that it was the right place for me to stand. At the end of the day I feel good about my vote and am happy I chose the way I did.
But it does bring to mind one thing I learned a long time ago- life isn't fair. And I don't think it was meant to be. We don't have the "right" to have anything the other person has just because we want it. When you get down to it, that is the basic idea behind communism- everyone gets what they need (until a dictator comes in and "needs" most of it!)
I did an exercise with my boys when they were little. I was so tired of hearing "it's not fair" that I declared a FAIR DAY. Things were going to be fair for one day. They were excited! They both got up at the same time, ate the same breakfast, drank at the same time, watched the same shows, had the same snack, played the same game (and had to have the same score)... which lasted about 3 hours before they screamed for mercy. They didn't want the same snack. They don't like the same shows, and they wanted someone to be victorious in the game.
It was a good lesson. Life isn't fair. You don't always get the same thing, or the same amount, that the other person has. And sometimes, the state you live in passes a law you like, and sometimes they don't. That's life. Good thing we're only here for a short time, then we're on to an eternity of better!
i am more concerned with the conservative leanings of north carolina than the actual vote. if gays don't like it, they are free to move to another state.
ReplyDeleteit is not looking like obama will carry north carolina at the moment. so i like that part. btw - the demographics as it pertains to the blacks is very, very interesting.
NC has always been a conservative state. Usually, only Charlotte and Raleigh vote liberal. Obama carried the state in 2008 but by a very, very, slim margin. I sure hope he doesn't carry it this year.
ReplyDeleteWhere I live, the Netherlands, same sex marriage isn't even an issue anymore. It's as legal as anything. And no chance whatsoever, humanly speaking, that it will ever change. It will take a miracle ...
ReplyDeleteI've been in two minds about it too for quite a long time. Being a Christian I had to disagree ... but being Dutch democratic (which is way different than an USA Democrat) I had to agree that when people want to live their life in a certain way (and mess it up, in my view) they are entitled to. You can't impose a Christian way of life on non-Christians. You can only try to show them how different it could be ...
It's still a difficult issue.
My attitude (being a Libertarian) is: If it isn't hurting someone else, it's none of my business. And if it's none of my business, it's not my GOVERNMENT's business, either. Stress MY government, coz it says right at the beginning "We the People..."
ReplyDeleteI hold a Biblical view in this area. I believe it is only between a man and a woman. Before some one says I am too narrow minded let me share the following - I am an ordained Southern Baptist minister and deacon. I earned a master's degree in religious education from one of the most conservative theological seminaries in the world. Yes, my beliefs impact my point of view. One of the primary reasons I left full time ministry in early 1996 was my inability to "manage" or "control" my family. My oldest son was in college at the time. I learned he was gay. Since I was no longer to keep my young adult son under control it was felt I was no longer qualified to be a minister, hence I returned to secular work. This was based on the teachings of 1 Timothy 3. Whether or not I agreed did not matter. It is a case where you hate the sin and love the sinner unconditionally. My wife stays in denial in this area. I pray for my son. He alone is accountable to God. He and I worked at the same place 1997 to 1999. When he first started I had a coworker ask me in a group meeting if I knew my son was gay and how I could live with myself since he was. The coworker was not very sensitive. I did not get angry. I simply said I love my son unconditionally and made no further elaboration. My personal view does not change with a gay son. That is because the word of God doesn't change. He alone is accountable to God for his choices. All I can do is pray and attempt to love him from where he is to where God's word says he needs to be.
ReplyDeletei have nothing against gay marriage. it is not up to me to define love. god knows it is hard enough to find on a good day. but i do think it is important to leave certain things to the states and let people decide if they want to live there or move.
ReplyDeleteotherwise the government steps in and screws things up. i don't even think the government should have gotten involved in abortion (roe vs. wade). it is none of their business. let states decide. they will either thrive or go bankrupt.
that is where the people decide. and that is the way it should be.
jimmie, i find it interesting that you stopped spreading the word of god because you have a gay son. being a southerner and knowing how baptists can be, i can't help but wonder if you left before the proverbial crap hit the fan if people found out about your boy.
ReplyDeleteNo, I haven't stooped sharing the Gospel. I have only stopped being in a paid, full time vocational ministry. I can guarantee it "hit the fan", even though my son was legally an adult. I served at the pleasure of the church. The church felt I no longer was qualified to serve since I couldn't manage or control my family. This is my only reply or response that I will make on the subject.
ReplyDeleteMaybe that's why the church has low attendance these days, failing to keep up with modern day goings on.
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm not for or against gay marriage but I don't see any harm in a civil partnership.
btw dishy, went to see hunger games. It was good (for what I saw of it) LOL.
Good blog and I appreciate what you say. When it comes down to it, the issue really is about giving rights to people who want sexual choice to be recognized in the same way as gender, age, or even race. A choice is a choice and you make it full well knowing the consequences. In the case of homosexuality, it's a moral choice no matter how one tries to paint it. God does not approve, but that's why some want to debate even that.
ReplyDeleteTell them his: "What if life is fair, and you're getting exactly what you deserve?"
ReplyDeleteHmmmm....I suppose if folks don't like certain laws in a particular state, they can always vote with their feet.
ReplyDeleteAjax, good point.
Excellent point.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, the church hasn't much changed since the days when the Holy Pope and Rome was in control. We just have more churches, more views and all the different churches pretty much still think (at least the ones I've visited...I'm sure there are some that DON'T feel like this - keep reading) that the church has a right to tell you how to dress, how to live, where to live, what to say, what to think and then DEMAND that you keep all of those 100% of the time. I gave up on going to church just for that reason. I believe in God. I just don't believe in my fellow man much these days.
ReplyDeleteWe passed the same kind of law here in Ohio some years back. Like you I had conflicting feelings about it too. One of the major issues with a law like this is how it affects all unmarried couples. So far Ohio hasn't changed much in that respect.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure about the USA but I am sure that in the UK and most European countries, there are not so many real Christians left these days. Many people will say they are Christians whether they truly believe or not because of their backgrounds. It's the same here in Nepal. It is an 80% Hindu country but almost all young people will say that they no longer believe, I believe that religion should not affect state laws. We should not impose Christian principles on non-Christians. Approximately 5% of the world population is gay. Why should they not have the same rights of marriage as the other 95%. It is simply a case of the majority imposing its will on the minority. In some liberated countries such as Holland, this is not even an issue and gays are treated as equal members of society. Even in mega conservative Nepal, gay marriage is now legal and gays are fully protected by the law. I think its time that those conservative US States got realistic about human rights.
ReplyDeleteForcing a state to allow gay marriage is forcing the state to make a moral decision.....
ReplyDeleteHola
ReplyDeleteWow! I must admit, I never saw that coming, But at least it shows the willingness of Nepal to make changes. What does that say about NC or come to that the USA? :-/
ReplyDeleteI'm not familiar with how things have been done in this particular state, but when it was a democratic decision, when the majority has voted in favor of same sex marriage to be allowed, there is not much you, as a minority can do. Other than pray and live your life as an example.
ReplyDeleteRiete, in this case the majority voted (61% to 39%) to not allow gay marriage.
ReplyDeleteAnd it's a clear statement -- we, as Christians, should not simply accept what is unacceptable to God.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I finally figured out, Steve. I had to stand for what I stand for. It might not be right in the eyes of the world, but I'm not of this world.
ReplyDeleteBut is that so? There's been a whole host of study into the "gay gene" over recent years. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation for example.)
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it - with there still being such bigotry and homophobia in the world, who in their right mind would choose to be gay?? I don't know if the gay gene actually exists or not. But I do know several gay people, my cousin included - and none of them suddenly woke up one morning and thought "hey! I think I'll turn gay! Should be a whole barrel of fun!". They believe in and feel their sexual orientation in just the same way as any heterosexual person I know. They just are. Not by choice, or fancying something different for a change. They just are.
I don't know about that, I'm pretty happy just now. ;-)
ReplyDeleteBTW Dishy, I don't get this Obama said He supports gay marriages but then a week prior to him saying that you post this.
ReplyDeleteSo, (I'm not that familiar with Congress, btw) does that mean Obama can overturn a state's decision or does he (BO) just speak for the US in general?
Actually, it's more like a babble. lol.
"gay gene" or not.. it's still a choice. An alcoholic dies not have to drink to be an alcoholic. Being gay is not the issue.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but that comment makes no sense at all. How could it be a choice if the gay gene does exist? Do you choose to be heterosexual? Or are you just "built" that way? You are what you are - there's no choice about it. Unless you have a particular orientation and actively choose to go against it - which no-one should have to do in this world just to please someone else who disagrees with it. Are you saying that gay people should deny themselves the comfort and pleasure of a gay relationship, as an alcoholic should deny themselves drink? With alcoholism I agree - I lived with one for many years until his behaviour finally drove me away. That behaviour because of the addiction doesn't just involve or have consequences on the person drinking. But with a gay couple - it's consenting sex between two adults and not harming anyone else, just as sex between heteros is. Why are you so against them? What have they ever personally done to hurt you? I'm not saying all this in an angry, belligerent tone - I think that's important to state. I'm more cocking my head to one side, perplexed.
ReplyDeleteYou're awesome. I love you to bits. :)
ReplyDeleteI guess it started with the gay marriage being defeated in NC (that's not even accurate, but how it was portrayed in the media. More like traditional marriage was upheld.) The amendment to our state constitution now states that marriage be between one man and one woman. It passed very significantly, but the outcry from the minority was loud enough for Obama to hear it and jump on the bandwagon with them. Time will tell if that was smart for him politically. Now the elections look like the religious right vs. the non-religious left. But there's a lot of time until November. I know it helped Obama's campaign financially, but has hurt him in the polls.
ReplyDeleteLooks like you figured it out on your own. My comment makes sense when applied to the practice of homosexuality. To practice homosexual sex is a choice.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think I have something against gay people? Why do you assume I am not gay? I have heard someone who is gay make the same statement regarding choice.
Do gay couples need to be married to have sex?
Groan... That long?! :-|
ReplyDeleteI do agree with that. The gay roommate I had after I graduated college (whom I love dearly- and he's still awesome!) has been celibate for 15 years because he believes that homosexual sex is a sin. Of course, I've been celibate for over 6 years because I believe sex outside of marriage is a sin- and I'm not married!
ReplyDeleteIn political campaigning, that's a long time!
ReplyDelete